Running/Playing Events

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Running/Playing Events

Post  Theterrainguy on Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:22 am

Seems that running and playing in events is an issue - major issue - primary reason it seems that most will not come to events anymore.

It would seem that somehow running an event affects the results of events as well.

Just wondering who will be running the events in Saskatoon from now on - need to know who to register with.

I will be there playing but if running and playing are the only two choices, I choose playing everytime. EVERYTIME. I would love to hear from everyone on this - want to see if its the true sense of the community or just a few peoples opinion. Seems to me that each event I have gone to was run and played in by the hosting player - never heard me cry foul (maybe because I understand its fun to play as well - and the hard work that goes in).

Love to hear feedback from everyone on this. A let it be clear I have no issues not running events, to be honest less rushing around for me (no late Friday nights, no early Saturdays, no more 1000's in terrain, no set-up, no clean up, no points to add, no prize money to chip in, no arguments/dicussions to settle) - sounds like a breeze.

To confirm this is not here-say here is the quote that prompted this post - if I am incorrect in the words let the speaker please correct me (copied and pasted from our discussion)

"But the cardinal rule of running a tournament was always pretty simple, you don't play in your own tournaments. It's a clear conflict of interest. Winning your own tournaments is extremely bad form. So when I heard that this was happening I lost a lot of respect for you."

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Re: Running/Playing Events

Post  Timbo on Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:23 pm

Theterrainguy wrote: no more 1000's in terrain,

Sigh. LOL.

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Re: Running/Playing Events

Post  Timbo on Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:55 pm

Alright. So Shawn quoted two sentences of mine out of a 3 page discussion we had. I'll post it here to give the proper context. Funny thing is Shawn winning his own tournaments is not even what the discussion was supposed to be about. That's only one of about 4 or 5 reasons I have no respect for him. He grasped at that to avoid answering the question he's been avoiding all along: Why is it okay for Curtis and Shawn to insult Shaun, Saskatoon players, and our forums? Anyhow, enjoy the dancing:

Theterrainguy Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:00 pm

Hello Tim.
After letting the disucssion die down and letting myself cool down I deicided to check the boards just to see if there were any posts - non-spam related. Saw the recent ones you and a few others have been posting. All good. I am trying to move past that all now as I am moving on to work on growing the game - continuing to. Now as I see it the game can go two ways in Saskatoon, divided or unified. Which way I do not know. Lots of factors to consider. I do know that egos are not going to help so they got to go, on both sides (perhaps you disagree). Personalities aside events are events, and the game is the game. You either like it for the game, or for the people you play with, sometimes both - but if you go to events outside your gaming group (which I do often, not sure about you as I do not know anything about you) you are bound to run into people you rather not play. This happens a lot, you can get through it for love of the game, competition or challenge or you can refuse to play. I have never let people get in my way of events. My suggestion is perhaps if you have issue with something I am doing or I have said – bring it to me, I am reachable via various ways. If I have slighted you this was certainly not my intention, you and I (amongst others) got pulled into a discussion perhaps we should have all never been a part of. Loyalties I understand, I can appreciate. However, not liking a person or forming opinion about them is not something I make a habit of. So you can think of me what you wish (changing your mind is not my intention) I will reform my opinion of you as I really have no reference to form one (an appropriate one anyways) from. Internet BS is not a true judge of character in my opinion. In the future if you do want to attend events, your welcome if you do not I understand that as well.

Timbo Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:34 pm

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here. I agree that the discussion got out of hand. My position on the game and playing with people is pretty clear. I enjoy playing FoW with my friends. My issue with you two is this: Curtis treated Shaun poorly. This is beyond dispute. Curtis assumed there would be no repercussions (because hey, you can say whatever you want on the internet right?), but when Shaun attempted to hold him accountable you both objected. Then you harassed him until he stepped aside, you stepped in and allowed Curtis to compete in the tournament which condoned his behavior. Curtis claims he apologised, but that was so ridiculous it doesn't even bear mentioning. So initially it was a simple point of principle for me, but since then I have witnessed you two continue to attack Shaun, Saskatoon players and our forums. So what started out as principle has grown into a healthy dislike. The fact that you constantly point out your accomplishments as you attack others is particularly grating as I mentioned earlier.

It's very simple for me. I don't like you. I don't like Curtis. I have no loyalty to Shaun or anyone else. I made up my mind all on my own. I realise you are two different people. I dislike each of you in your own special ways. If you are at an event I will not be. If you want to play every tournament in Saskatchewan for the rest of your lives that's great. We play lots of FoW in Saskatoon and have a blast doing it. I'm just being straight with you here. I think your blind loyalty to Curtis does you a disservice. If Curtis wants to make a sincere apology to Shaun and everyone else he's insulted it might start the ball rolling, but at this point I'm not sure even that would be enough. It just might take some time.

Theterrainguy Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:53 pm

Fair enough. As for letting Curtis compete. Darren will not allow banning of players; I made my position on banning pretty clear. As to the attacks, Shaun was the one to pull me in on the discussion via personal attack (I did fire back but did not start that whole thing). Like I said I don't know who you know or don't, so cannot speak to your loyalties. Curtis is my friend, and in my world you stick up for your friends, even when they do thing/say things you might not (although Curtis is free to say as he chooses - as are you and anyone else). I am not put out by you disliking me, that is your choice as I said, not looking for a back and forth here. As for events, I will likely be at most of them in one capacity for another, running or playing. Things are likely going to be changing in the next year for events, well I know for a fact they will be. The changes do not have anything to do with all of this stuff though, so it’s not meant to be a negative comment in any way. There are obviously people that straddle both fences here - meaning they have friends in both groups. My intent is not to hinder their game play or have them choose sides. I am cool with never playing with any of you, and I am cool with playing with all of you. I don't dislike people; I dislike their actions and their comments. I know people are talking in public about others, I have an ear to the ground - my wish is for all the slander (from everyone - either on the internet or forums to cease, myself included). I used to be friends with Shaun, he was a cool guy but he has created his own waves in the gaming world as well so he cannot please innocence here. Nor Curtis, nor me, nor you. Once people figure that out we might start to get back to what we all got into the game for, enjoyment. Playing in Saskatoon is fun, the more the merrier. I will say I have never had a bad event there, so if that continues in the future I will be happy.

Timbo Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:16 am

I get it. Shaun pushed you first. I don't give a shit about whether anyone gets banned. Why does banning keep getting mentioned? The only people banned from anything are a bunch of Saskatoon players from your forums. It's not about banning, it's about accountability and treating people with respect. People over the age of 13 cannot talk to other people the way Curtis did. That's it. That's what this is all about. It all blew up from there.

I'll be straight with you regarding your tournaments also. It came to my attention that you ran a lot of tournaments, which I thought was great. I have been running miniatures tournaments for over 20 years and I have a healthy respect for people willing to volunteer their time and effort in doing so. But the cardinal rule of running a tournament was always pretty simple, you don't play in your own tournaments. It's a clear conflict of interest. Winning your own tournaments is extremely bad form. So when I heard that this was happening I lost a lot of respect for you. I'm aware that technically it is allowed, but just because you can does not mean that you should. Tack on some bragging about it as well and you don't come out looking very good to an experienced group of miniatures gamers in Saskatoon. That was certainly my initial take, and first impressions can only be made once.

Theterrainguy Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:11 am

Banning - you can ask Shaun - He is the one that banned Curtis and this is were it all started.

Running tournaments and playing - well I fly to events, spend 800.00+ dollars to come to them, I am sorry if I am not playing I am not coming. Certainly I would not by the terrain and run events if I was not playing. By your logic, you would not respect Lorne, who ran an event and played in it, nor Rob that did the same, and even Shaun attemped to run an event he was playing in, Lance did he not play in his event (not sure this is why I ask). Winning, because I am good at the game should have no bearing, talking about winning is what people do. Will I not try in events I run? Well my answer is certainly no to that. I get now where your perspective is coming from, it really all makes sense now.

Timbo Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:48 pm

Please keep mentioning how much money you spend on the hobby. I and others are really impressed and fascinated by these totals. Perhaps you could do up an excel spreadsheet or something and post it on Curtis' blog? The fact that you spend so much money must mean you are super-dedicated to the hobby and a great guy!

Are you seriously equating you playing in, and winning your own tournaments to what Lorne, Rob, and Lance are doing? Really?

Once again you have avoided the heart of the matter. Accountability and respect. No mention of Curtis' behavior, your attacks on Saskatoon players, etc. Your "defence" consists of trying to throw a bunch of other players under the bus. Classy.

Please don't respond to this. I think we're done here.

Theterrainguy Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:07 pm

Yep, we are done. See you at the Den.

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Re: Running/Playing Events

Post  Timbo on Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:04 pm

That's a lot to read and if you don't want to take the time I don't blame you. Shawn, my problems with you and Curtis are personal. Some others have no such problems with you. Why don't you focus on them and move forward? You're going to have to resign yourselves to accepting that Tim is not going to be be providing any support or affection for you guys in the near future. Keep running events. Keep playing the game. I don't care! Really!

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Re: Running/Playing Events

Post  Ryan G on Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:20 pm

Theterrainguy wrote:Seems that running and playing in events is an issue - major issue - primary reason it seems that most will not come to events anymore.


Seriously? Out of everything Tim had to say (which I agree with) throughout your discussion this is the "major issue - primary reason"? It's just deflection after deflection.

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Re: Running/Playing Events

Post  Theterrainguy on Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:22 pm

I understand that actually. I never met you is all my point was, so I was saying perhaps the internet BS has not cast such a great light on either of us (no idea - but pretty sure you didn't meet Curtis). I know I have had a back and forth with Shuan, and I am moving past that - it was as much give as take there. Past that. If Curtis and Shaun got further issues let’s let them sort that out - not sure anyone else getting involved will help much in that case. As for insulting other Sask. players, not sure that was me, if I said anything against them it was not my intent, but I think the reference is for what Curtis said a while ago now, and he addressed that. Again most of the Sask. guys I talk to often (outside of the guys exclusive to this board). The whole point of the PM's was to make progress in a positive direction. You didn't seem receptive to that, which is fine. Don't fault for trying and accuse me of deflecting - I am right here always reachable for discussion and will not shy away from it.

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Re: Running/Playing Events

Post  Theterrainguy on Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:27 pm

I am not going to go on any further as its not helping anything - so I have heard your perspective and likewise you for mine. Just call it what it is and we can all get over it.

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Re: Running/Playing Events

Post  Timbo on Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:47 pm

Theterrainguy wrote:I understand that actually. I never met you is all my point was, so I was saying perhaps the internet BS has not cast such a great light on either of us (no idea - but pretty sure you didn't meet Curtis). I know I have had a back and forth with Shuan, and I am moving past that - it was as much give as take there. Past that. If Curtis and Shaun got further issues let’s let them sort that out - not sure anyone else getting involved will help much in that case. As for insulting other Sask. players, not sure that was me, if I said anything against them it was not my intent, but I think the reference is for what Curtis said a while ago now, and he addressed that. Again most of the Sask. guys I talk to often (outside of the guys exclusive to this board). The whole point of the PM's was to make progress in a positive direction. You didn't seem receptive to that, which is fine. Don't fault for trying and accuse me of deflecting - I am right here always reachable for discussion and will not shy away from it.

You've used the phrase "internet BS" a few times now. Are you suggesting people shouldn't be held accountable or judged for things they say on the internet? I would strongly disagree with that. You clearly did insult other Saskatoon players in the thread just below this one. You were being egged on by Curtis, but this is no excuse. I didn't seem receptive to making progress in our discussion? I was trying to get to the root of the issue all along (the original event) and you were not. That's how I read it. Then you say me being non-receptive is fine? What kind of passive-aggressive BS is that? Look, I can see you want to fix things. That's why we're still going back and forth after all this time. Stuff like, "Pretty sure I didn't insult anyone" is not going to get it done.

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Re: Running/Playing Events

Post  ScottRadom on Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:53 pm

I'll talk about the question asked by Shawn.

It's a poor banker that can't win Monopoly.

You flat out can't win your own tournament. At best if you run an event you can play a soft army and play the odd man out at the bottom of the standings. To play in your own event (and win) if not fair. There's too many variable that are all run through the Tournament Organizer and the confilict is unavoidable.

Like Tim Miller I have been runnign events a long, long, long time. I even participated ina few leagues I was in charge of and I was the winner once. Once. After that I realized how shady it looked and had to step down if I wanted to compete. Someone else stepped up and took over. Even if they didn't I couldn't carry on in good conscience.

As for the the other question about who will run events if you stop? One way to find out, stop running events in Saskatoon.

As for the spendings so very much cash on terrain etc.... please. You're embarrasing yourself on a ton of levels. I am flat out telling you it's not worth your time to ever mention this thing ever, ever again. Just stop.

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Re: Running/Playing Events

Post  Shaun on Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:47 pm

Timbo wrote:Curtis treated Shaun poorly. This is beyond dispute. Curtis assumed there would be no repercussions (because hey, you can say whatever you want on the internet right?), but when Shaun attempted to hold him accountable you both objected. Then you harassed him until he stepped aside, you stepped in and allowed Curtis to compete in the tournament which condoned his behavior. Curtis claims he apologised, but that was so ridiculous it doesn't even bear mentioning.

this was the root of the problem which has continue to go downwards.


there is a thousand deflections from shawn.
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Re: Running/Playing Events

Post  Dhamon on Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:30 am

Shaun wrote:
Timbo wrote:Curtis treated Shaun poorly. This is beyond dispute. Curtis assumed there would be no repercussions (because hey, you can say whatever you want on the internet right?), but when Shaun attempted to hold him accountable you both objected. Then you harassed him until he stepped aside, you stepped in and allowed Curtis to compete in the tournament which condoned his behavior. Curtis claims he apologized, but that was so ridiculous it doesn't even bear mentioning.

this was the root of the problem which has continue to go downwards.


there is a thousand deflections from shawn.

Shauns sheep all seem to forget that Shaun actually started it all. He lashed out first, he threw the first "punch" even though he won't admit it. And I actually warned him to stop before I blew up, and made him cry.

then I apologized and took full blame which shaun did not acknowledge. It was a private message and of course "its not worth mentioning in shauns mind.
because it was sincere and I was being the bigger man.

yet you all think I'm the ass.

Clearly there are bigger issues then a personal problem with me or Shawn.

I actually let it all go and said to hell with all of you, and I find you've created a forum and are still going on about what happens, even though none of you even know what really happened. I even gave my phone number out a few times so everyone could stop being a coward and talk to me in person. I got no takers.

some of you need to take a long hard look at yourself. I don't even think i've ever met shaun or half the people on here and not sure how you can have a "personal' problem with someone when you haven't met someone in "PERSON".

learn to think for yourselves people. instead of following a terd who filters what you know about the truth.

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Re: Running/Playing Events

Post  Dhamon on Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:38 am

Timbo wrote:Curtis treated Shaun poorly. This is beyond dispute. Curtis assumed there would be no repercussions (because hey, you can say whatever you want on the internet right?), but when Shaun attempted to hold him accountable you both objected. Then you harassed him until he stepped aside, you stepped in and allowed Curtis to compete in the tournament which condoned his behavior. Curtis claims he apologized, but that was so ridiculous it doesn't even bear mentioning.

Tim,

You clearly have no clue. How would you know about the apology? It was a private message to shaun. Never posted any where.
He wasn't even man enough tell me he didn't accept my appology, but continues to bad mouth me months after. Grow a pair.

I still have exactly what I said to shaun. So, if you'd like to read it I will gladly send it to you.

I won't bother posting it hear because any time I post the truth about what really happened, and would put holes in everyone's hatred towards shawn and myself, it gets deleted.

Its a game for Christ sakes.

The problem is everything is to far gone to go back. no one even remembers why they are pissed, and no one wants to look like a fool and go back to really look at it. Even though Shaun and I tried for the good of the hobby.

there is no saving them shawn. We had 18 with out them, and if they won't go to tournaments we go to that only hurts them.

They can't use your terrain so to bad for them. They had their chance to patch this up.

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Re: Running/Playing Events

Post  ScottRadom on Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:46 am

Curtis... oh how I missed your posts!

It's unclear to me what your motivation is. I have to assume it's just pure retardation. I'm sorry I haven't called, I've been busy. Mostly doing stuff with non retards. Sometimes I make exceptions. 306-477-1064. I'll be waiting. I've always wanted to speak to a fucktard, and I think now is my time.

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Re: Running/Playing Events

Post  Ryan G on Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:03 am

Dhamon wrote:

I won't bother posting it hear because any time I post the truth about what really happened, and would put holes in everyone's hatred towards shawn and myself, it gets deleted.

Jesus, you may actually be retarded. There was one, ONE, post of yours deleted. ONE POST. ONE. It was not the truth (let x-files music commence). It was you being an immature braggart and calling people names. I know. I deleted it. Nothing has been deleted since. Scott asked me not to so we could all witness your crazy. It is entertaining!

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Re: Running/Playing Events

Post  Timbo on Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:08 pm

Yeah Curtis, you're really not doing yourself any favours by continuing to talk. We all read your initial message to Shaun that got this whole mess started. Just stop man, just stop.

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Re: Running/Playing Events

Post  Ryan G on Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:46 pm

Here's the 'apology' I read through the yahoo group.

Curtis wrote:

I apologize about going overboard in the end there.

But Shaun jumped down my throat for my opinion and said it was me who jumps down peoples throats.
Every argument he had, could have described himself...but I'm the one banned.

Apparently he is mad because i said Saskatoon players get the rules wrong....they do. Its not a cut down or knock...its the truth.
If you get pissy because of this, what am I suppose to do? I gave very specific examples and have more.

The entire club jumped down my throat when I tried to assault with my tigers playing by the real rules.
But I'm the bad guy because I hurt everyone's feelings for telling the truth? What are we in grade 8?

I want to play properly, and I want others to play the game that I'm VERY VERY passionate about to play properly as well.
We won't get better if we don't.
If guys don't want to play properly they shouldn't come to OFFICIALLY RANKED TOURNAMENTS.
Shaun seemed to get mad about that as well. Its not a personal shot. But he took it that way.

Now I hear someone "has NEVER cared for me" I've met some of you guys like twice. and we laughed and made jokes the whole time we played. I thought Roch was very funny.
In fact I gave him my sportsman vote, I had so much fun playing him.
My guess is he doesn't really know who Shaun is talking about.

And Scott says "if I only admit the way I am"...Well that tells me he didn't even read what I wrote.
I said exactly how I am...I'm the most sarcastic person in the world.
And Shauns right, don't give a shit what I say or who's feelings I hurt. I tell it like it is, whether you like it or not.
And I'll tell you to your face and not hide behind a forum. Anyone can phone me and have it out any time they want.

Unlike Shaun I know exactly the way I am. Maybe he needs to admit the way he is, Roch?
All he did was keep attacking me.

Or he thinks Shaun is talking about a different person.

Any of you that know Shaun better fess up because you know damn well he argues for the sake of arguing...right or wrong.

besides, I'm sure he's only telling you his bias side and taking my comments out of context...especially after hearing what Roch had to say.

Whom ever takes Shauns side didn't read any of it. He couldn't stand up for anything he said and just kept attacking me while I provided facts, until I blew my lid and snapped. Told you i'd make him cry...and now i'm "banned", and no one will go to tournaments if I do?

Yet he tells me to grow up? wow.

Anyway I apologize to all the Saskatoon people. I really meant no offense if it was taken that way....(think i said that already too, while shaun kept jumping on me)
It was more directed to shaun to egg him on. The madder he got the more I laughed.

This whole thing makes no sense to me, especially since Shaun went to Masters.
You think he would want everyone to play properly as well. It makes us all better. ."

END

That's an apology? Really? That's a justification, and a very poor one at that.

Btw Curtis, before this started I had never met Shaun. I couldn't have picked him out of a crowd. Since then I've seen him a few times and we've had a couple games. He seems like an alright guy to me. However, I had met you and Shawn before and have such based my opinions of you on my personal experience and your online actions (sadly mostly online). Not what anyone else has to say. Or not anyone telling me how to think.

I originally was ok with Shawn. I respected what he did for the hobby and felt sorry for him about having someone sabotaging all his hard work. By that, I mean you Curtis. Not so much anymore, I kind of feel sorry for Shawn for other reasons now.

I could really care less about your terrain, events, $. You guys keep doing your thing. I'm happy doing mine. I'll still play the game, I'll still go to tournaments when I am able (not run by either of you of course), and I don't care if you're there either.


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Re: Running/Playing Events

Post  ScottRadom on Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:49 pm

I keep forgetting how actually awesome a Curtis post is! Thanks Ryan!

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Re: Running/Playing Events

Post  Timbo on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:36 pm

That one is definitely up there. All kinds of crazy. Future tip: An apology means admitting you've done something wrong. Like maybe try, "Shaun, I'm really sorry about all of the personal attacks I made on you. I overreacted to a situation that I shouldn't have. No adult should ever address another the way I talked to you. Please accept my apology and I assure you it won't happen again." By saying sorry and then trying to justify all of your actions you're not really, well doing much of anything except creating comic gold! I guess you're also keeping it real and telling it like it is. So you're doing a few things.

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Re: Running/Playing Events

Post  Shaun on Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:55 pm

Good old crazy Curtis posts, nothing like hearing it being real.
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