Hey Guys

[Trevor Y.]

Some of you will know who I am, but for those who don't, I've been playing various wargames over the last 10-12 years, and am currenty playing Warhammer Fantasy.  I am very interested in starting a late war Soviet army, and I am hoping you all can help guide me into acquiring the right stuff to make a solid balanced army.

[Timbo]

Hey Trevor. Brian and I both play primarily Soviets, and Rob and Alex have some as well. There was a lot of good but critical discussion of Soviet strengths and weaknesses on the official BF forums but most of that got taken down when they updated the forums. For tournament play Soviets are currently considered one of the weaker lists, but are certainly not unplayable. The power levels aren't as far askew in this game as you'd find in Warhammer. Americans are really strong at the moment, and the new veteran Canadian lists are showing well also. Germans have by far the most variety. You can play anything from reluctant trained all the way up to fearless veteran forces. Soviets basically come in two flavours: Confident trained and fearless trained. That is all.

Of the Soviet lists in the Red Bear book the Motostrelkovy, Rota Razvedki, and Peredovoye Otryad are the strongest. A pure Strelkovy list can be a good spoiler, but is not as desirable for tournaments because of the time restrictions and its weakness in mobile battle scenarios. Assaulting with big formations also got much more difficult under the V3 rules so the meta has shifted away from assaults and more towards lots of shooting.

As for Soviet units there are many good ones and many not so good ones. Unfortunately the most common, war-winning Soviet kit like the ubiquitous T-34, SU-76, Zis-3 gun, etc. are not very good in the game. That's why at tournaments you will see a lot of weird-looking Soviet armies with lots of historically rarer assault guns and lend-lease equipment. Did you have an idea of what type of force you'd like to collect? Or perhaps a budget you have to adhere to? Also, are you a fast painter? Soviets, especially Soviet infantry forces can be little intimidating on the hobby side of things.

[Trevor Y.]

I am a pretty fast painter. Budget is not an issue. Warhammer Armies are over $1100 each easily (and I have multiple armies), so to me this is a cheap game to get into...

My heart is not totally firm on Soviets, I just want to start with a force that is competitive enough that it is my tactics and not the army I chose that makes me lose, if you know what I mean? I don't want to start at a serious disadvantage due to faction choice.

If I had an army that had a good balance of troop types, I think it would also help me learn how to play all the rules faster. Maybe Soviets are not a good start, because their lists tend to be more infantry heavy, and don't use as many of the toys? I don't know. Maybe doing that as a second army makes more sense?

I am also interested in Germans, Americans, and British. Maybe Germans would have that balance I am looking for?

[Timbo]

Soviets play just fine, and have a decent amount of variety. They just have to rely upon ahistorical lists to be competitive. This bothers the players who are more into the history part of the game, as opposed to the gamers who don't really care. As I mentioned earlier, Germans have by far the most variety as far as lists and unit types go. Germans are much more of a finesse army, while Soviets don't even have a word for finesse. Think rapier versus sledgehammer. As Lorne mentioned in the other thread, you can choose any nationality and build a list you can win with. That's why this is such a great game. If you were leaning towards Soviets then I say go for it! I'm sure you'll eventually end up with multiple armies anyhow, just like in Warhammer. There are many Soviet players on here (myself included) who would be happy to help you with advice on unit and list selection if that's the way you decide to go.

[Trevor Y.]

I really appreciate the advice. I think I will go with Soviets then, since that really is my first choice.

I will pick up the rulebook today and start reading. I am not sure what is a 'must buy' and what would be a 'choice'. But I've been reading that Soviet Infantry lists used to do well. I am currently playing Skaven for Warhammer, and that makes me think Soviets are like the Skaven of Fantasy.

heh heh.

My friend who is a WW2 buff, said the Soviet tanks outshined the German ones late war, but reading online, the speed of the T34/85 tank does not translate well into FoW, and they end up losing out...

I would appreciate any help on choosing the initial base core models to get. I can branch out from there.

[Timbo]

While Soviets can play like Skaven (Germans would be much more like High Elves), they don't have to. Infantry lists are often a good meta choice because many tournament lists aren't prepared to deal with the sheer number of stands a Strelkovy player can put on the table. That being said, they have significant weaknesses too. 3 of the scenarios (free for all, encounter and dust up) start with all units not in prepared positions. This is a severe handicap to armies with lots of infantry and guns. And in a game with a tight time restriction infantry forces will struggle to finish on time. Most Soviet lists will run smaller infantry units and use their support choices to win games. Assault guns, lend-lease tanks and transports, light armoured cars, tend to be the go-to units. Unfortunately anything Soviet-built with a turret (like the T-34/85s you mentioned) should be avoided. T-34s (both types), IS-2s, T-70s, are basically all overcosted and underpowered.

[Trevor Y.]

I picked up the following from the Dragon's Den today.
1) Flames of War Rulebook
2) Operation: Bagration
3) Soviet Paint Set
4) Za Stalina Dice Set
5) Artillery Template

I decided to go hard with Soviets. I am going to do some reading. Are there certain Army lists in Red Bear that I should be looking at more than others?

[Shaun]

Hey awesome to hear you are getting into FOW!

Great to meet you online

You dont need operation; bagration as it is campaign mission.

What kind of force do you want to build?
A heavy tankj force?
A med tank force?
A infantry Force?
A arty force?

A mix combation of infantry, arty and heavy assualt tanks?

They are so many options.

[Trevor Y.]

I think it would be fun to start with a mix. Then I can learn what I like, and build on those units.

I just started reading the rulebook tonight. This game is more difficult than Warhammer to figure out what you need for a starting force. Warhammer has limited options, and you can only take certain maximum points from each area.

I am trying to find a starting point in FoW, where I don't spend all my money on units that don't offer me the opportunities in game, because they never perform. I have the Red Bear book and hope to see examples of potential builds in there for my army, and maybe some discussion pieces about them.

I've been surfing the net for as much information as possible. All I've found out is that most people think the Soviet tanks suck, and mass infantry is the way to go. However, it is hard to tell if that information is dated, as rules change all the time, and people play with a small number of people and skill levels are always a factor to someone's opinion.

When starting into a new game it is always overwhelming, and you feel you are 15 steps behind everyone else, and are scrambling to find anything to provide you with an anchor point.

I've watched the Boot Camp videos, and the sample game. I think the game looks fantastic just from these videos alone. I love the terrain, and the whole WW2 feel of the game. I am hoping some Soviet experts will be able to help me decipher this code, and help guide me to a decent starting point for miniatures to buy.

[Timbo]

, and mass infantry is the way to go.

This is likely old information. In V2 mass infantry was much more effective because the Quality of Quantity rules were more forgiving. Getting into assaults is much more difficult now. Infantry isn't terrible, but you have to be aware of its limitations. I'll post a couple lists I can build with the models I have that I consider decent lists. You can check them out and feel free to ask questions. If you ask nicely Brian might post his Motostrelk and Peredovoye Otryad lists. His Moto list is killer and he's been having some success with his forward detachment as well.

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